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Some notes

UserPost

6:57 pm
September 13, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 3:45 am – September 18, 2013 by tigertheory


A little birdy invited me to drop by and pitch some input. So I'll just leave this here to foster discussion. It's important to note that I started on this yesterday, and haven't read the forum in two days. If anything I suggest in the docs is in a completely different direction from what you envision, please ignore it.

Zenith Notes

7:01 pm
September 13, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 5:38 am – September 14, 2013 by tigertheory


EDIT: Fixed — gotta hit shift + enter

I'm a little confused as to why the link showed up next to my paragraph when I hit return between the two?

9:01 pm
September 13, 2013

cooler
Admin

posts 102

Welcome!

The only other person I know John was going to invite was Caligo, so I assume that's you? If so, hey! It's been a long time since we talked. If not, who are you? :p.

Eliminating Word Requirements
Option 1: Probably won't happen. We do not want to promote people as being better roleplayers by giving them larger bonuses for being “better.” Currently RPs will be graded based on the amount of words. It should be noted we are not shying away from using words as a basis for grading training but rather we are shying away from requiring a certain amount of words for things such as traveling, learning a technique, etc.

Option 2: Again, we are grading based off of words and therefore we probably won't add additional rewards because someone was “better” than someone else. We want to cater to all skill levels when it comes to RPing and we don't want to show favoritism to anyone because of their ability to RP.

I feel like I should go over how we are grading our RPs. When someone has something that needs to be turned in to be updated they use the Chimera Engine to process their update. When they are using the system there will be a tag system that allows them to tag techniques used (for awarding technique points) and allow them to tag anything else we deem important. Then a DM will browse through the post to be updated and simply verify that what was tagged does exist. Once verified they will push it through and everything is updated automatically on their profile.

Character Choices
We are definitely pushing towards using a non-canon character though we haven't decided on whether or not we're going to allow canon characters. I am very reluctant to close off canon characters because as you said people become attatched to them. However, it is already decided that most important canon characters will be locked as they are reserved for Story Events. The character builder sounds amazing but this will ultimate be up to John as he is handling the brunt of the programming efforts.

Universe
Currently we are using only four planets, Vegeta, Frieza #79, Earth and Namek. These planets will have various locations for members to visit, an item shop, and many other things. Then we have several minor planets which will contain special techniques and/or items. Currently members still have to travel to these planets but besides the special techniques/items the planets are empty. Then we have a third set of planets that will be used for Story Events, this is basically every other planet in the known Dragon Ball universe minus any that are destroy at this time or were introduced in filler episodes or GT.

Traveling
You are on the same page as us.

Items
Pretty much the same page. While we are not afraid to add items that don't appear in the manga/amime, the item does have to make sense. Obviously adding in unrealistic items like an M4 would make no sense.

Techniques
You seem to be on the same page as us. You'll  have to get more involved in the forums though as this is too extensive to describe here.

Perks/Talents/Feats
We'll obviously have passive Racial Abilities and some techniques may be passive as well. Other than that, we're still discussing the perks for stat distribution.

Fighting Styles
I like the idea but we have to become aware of how many choices we're giving the member. We want to keep things simple and if members have to worry about creating their own character, techniques, items and pick between different perks and fighting styles it could become too complicated for newer roleplayers. We're well aware that are member base probably won't be huge and we can't make it even smaller by making it too complicated.

Good ideas and great write-up. I really suggest that you go through the forums and post on those discussions it would make things more centralized for us. If you don't see a topic created that you feel needs to be talked about, go ahead and create that topic. Everyone on the team is welcome to create as many topics as needed and post in any topic and give their opinion on anything.

9:04 pm
September 13, 2013

cooler
Admin

posts 102

tigertheory said:

I'm a little confused as to why the link showed up next to my paragraph when I hit return between the two?



Are you using internet explorer?

Make sure you do all of your spacing using shift+enter. Also, sometimes <p> tags get entered so check the HTML code before posting. Make sure you are in compatbility mode when posting.

12:06 am
September 14, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 5:35 am – September 14, 2013 by tigertheory


I'm not using I.E. I mainly use Chrome but John informed me that some of the Chimera engine doesn't work well in Chrome, so I've been trying to use firefox for all of the Dystopia Pro stuff. (It's hard to remember after using Chrome almost exclusively for a long time)

Are <p> tags bad on this site? They're not supposed to stack things side by side…

The rules for using this editor will drive more people away than your perceived complicatedness of the systems.

12:29 am
September 14, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 5:54 am – September 14, 2013 by tigertheory


EDIT: I feel like there's far too much difference between size 2 (10pt) and size 3 (12pt)…does anyone else feel like that?
DOUBLE EDIT: There's definitely a difference. Size 2 is “x-small”, size 3 is normal. Where's the “small,” John?! =(

Okay so it is the Shift+Enter thing… I'll have to talk to John about that one. Surely that's not by design…

Oh and yeah, it's Caligo. Hello, hello!

I'll be sure to post on the other threads too, but before I do I'd like to respond to your comments.

First, my intention in the “Eliminating Word Counts” section is exactly to reward good writers for being better. What is the core gameplay element of a play-by-post? Isn't it writing? Are you rewarded for playing well in other games? Those players who aren't achieving these bonuses will be incentivised to improve, won't they? I'm not suggesting a huge reward, and it certainly doesn't have to be the only way to get the reward. You could get a reward for being a helpful community member, an active member, a contributor (content), etc. There's probably a dozen ways to reward someone for being an asset to the playerbase. If I were you, I would be concerned that tying training rewards solely to a word count is going to incentivise certain players to write bloated posts full of fluff words that serve no purpose other than buffing the word count. I know, I've done it.

Think of it this way: There are two players, one who is a great writer and gets bonuses for being voted as such, and another who isn't a great writer, but supplements his writing with fluff words like we all did in high school to make the grade. Both players are getting the same amount of points, they're each just resolving the end through different means.

If you read my comments above and still hate the idea — that's cool. It's just something I wanted to bring up. No need to use it, if you still feel uncomfortable with it. My feelings won't be hurt! =)

It's important that you don't confuse complexity with complicatedness. I think you over-estimate how complicated the Technique, Perk, and Fighting Style systems are. Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining them. I also think you underestimate the intelligence of your new players. You just need to have an adequate on-boarding process. Reduce the friction created when creating a character by hiding the complexity, and then revealing it as the character develops. You have to avoid using a wall of text. Replace the wall of text with diagrams, and use GUIs to hide irrelevant information.

7:02 am
September 14, 2013

cooler
Admin

posts 102

Post edited 12:02 pm – September 14, 2013 by cooler


John is already searching for a new forum to be used though you are welcome to help in that search.

It will have to be discussed more but I'm still reluctant as it would take a lot more time and effort to deem who gets those rewards. We want updating to be quick and even though we could process the update and go back and add additional rewards on top later it would still put more work on us than needed. We could do some kind of weekly/monthly “award show” though to do this. Perhaps we allow the members to vote on certain categories such as “best writer, best newcomer, most improved, etc” and the winners will receive small rewards. I think that's a good compromise, let me know!

We'll discuss those systems more with their own topics where they can be fleshed out more and properly assessed that way.

11:07 am
September 14, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 4:08 pm – September 14, 2013 by tigertheory


I don't know that I'd be much help to John at this point. Web development isn't really my area of expertise, these days…not to say I can't find my way through it when I need to.

I'm all for monthly awards, sure.

I'll spread my .pdf through the forum to the relevant topics to continue discussion. Until I do that, though, I encourage Dystopia and Fevian to join the discussion here.

10:45 pm
September 14, 2013

dystopia
Admin

posts 51

Ok, let me get in here and get into this. I'll start by saying, these forums have been in better shape, they'll be abandoned for DB Zenith and eventually the main forums as well (though for group style sites like this, they'll remain for the time being due to their inclusion into wordpress without any bridging installs)

On to the content stuff
Word counts are something we need to limit as much as possible, at least in the sense of required word counts (as in, 2000 words gets you an item or something) where as words just as a basis for xp gain is still probably the best way to go. I don't like the idea of grading RPs as that inserts bais and opinion into the mix and those things can wreck havoc.

Character stuff

I like the idea of the MMO/RPG style character builder, I'd like to invest some time trying to make this work, It's pretty important for us to have someone actually doing some artwork though, if Saiyen isn't up to it then we'll probably have to abandon said idea.

I think we're all on the same page with the universe and item stuff.

Techniques
As far as I'm concerned this is the most important area of development, we have to get this right. The tier system was always in my mind powered by a form of XP used to buy techniques (TP or Tech Points from now on). We'll award these based on use of techniques in actual RPs (though the tag system) and each tech will be upgradable in various ways. Assuming all techniques are named individually by the player based on a core tree of possible techs they are all basically up to the players to flesh out the mechanics, name, color, form, etc, via their RPs.

Perks
I really want to do this is a passive way, not something that players have to pick but something that if their stats, skills, techniques, etc align with they gain said perks.

12:35 am
September 15, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 5:39 am – September 15, 2013 by tigertheory


not something that players have to pick


You kinda lost me here. Why wouldn't you want players to have choice of perks? A game has been defined as a series of interesting choices. Take the choices away and it's no longer a game, but more like a movie. I'm also obviously thinking something different than you when it comes to techs, so you'll have to elaborate for me. Can you take me through the process of learning and developing a technique in your system?

7:48 am
September 15, 2013

cooler
Admin

posts 102

Perks
What he means is that perks are automatically activated dependant on the choices that a user makes when it comes to how they distribute stats, technique points, alignment, etc. Example: Cooler divides all of his stat points equally and gains the Freelancer perk by doing so. Cooler would keep this perk until his next level up and either keep it or earn a new one depending on how he chooses to distribute his stats. Now will these perks all be known and the requirements for them know? That's a different question. I think it would be kind of cool to “unlock” perks, however, the only issue is that the staff would have an unfair advantage.

Techniques
To upgrade techniques or to by new base techniques a user must spend technique points (TP). Technique points are earned through the training that a user does. Remember how I said that users could tag the techniques they use when putting in an update? The reason is that the technique points they gain are solely based off of the amount and type of techniques that they use. Example: During his training, Cooler uses the Ki Wave several times and also attempts to master his hand-to-hand combat. Therefore he would earn technique points towards Ki Wave and towards Fist-based and Leg-based techniques. He can then spend those points to upgrade/customize his techniques that fall into those categories.

Note: I will admit that as I wrote that it sounded kind of complicated. We'll see how it goes through practice and perhaps simplify it some more.

12:21 pm
September 15, 2013

tigertheory
Member

posts 17

Post edited 5:22 pm – September 15, 2013 by tigertheory


EDIT: I'm suddenly feeling the urge to write something to format my posts for me so I don't have to go to all the trouble it requires to make something look decent! :)

By “You lost me” I didn't mean confused. I understand his perk system. I just don't understand why he would want to remove the choice from players.

He can then spend those points to upgrade/customize his techniques that fall into those categories.


This quote is important. I originally thought you guys had planned to reward points toward a specific technique, not toward a category. I was like “Okay well why am I ever going to use a new technique to make it stronger when I can just use my old technique and win?”


3:19 pm
September 15, 2013

cooler
Admin

posts 102

It would have to be towards the category or else they'll never have the points to learn new techniques. Though it should be noted there will be relatively few techniques to learn anyways. Things will become more concrete once we have our technique list completed.

8:30 pm
September 17, 2013

dystopia
Admin

posts 51

Perks
Yeah I meant that how a player places stats and techs would determine the perks they get, rather then them picking them upon something like a level up, since we won't really have 'levels'. If you favor strength over ki you'd get a perk that reflects that, and so on. We could also have some perks for achievements, like kills, and whatnot.

Techniques
There should actually be at least 15-25 techs in each type for active techniques, and we'll probably have a fair amount of passive techs as well. However, that being said most of the attacks in DBZ are pretty similair so yes it will not be like RF where there are like nearly 200 techs. We should however have a way for players to create custom techniques as well, it will likely not be automated though as is this one of those areas where admin one on one is needed to balance these things out before adding them to the tech tree.

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